Does anybody uses Realm Cloud for production?

cloud

#24

@roberhofer
I am afraid you didn’t get all details of me and other people’s problem. I have contacted sales

The details why it is inappropriate model for most developers targeting mass-market and not ‘in-house’ apps are in this post https://forums.realm.io/t/does-anybody-uses-realm-cloud-for-production/2682/15?u=wildfisher


#25

@wildfisher do you need the realtime sync? I mean, I can understand the pricing structure per active device if you have a relatively small amount of users syncing high volumes of data in realtime. But I agree that it is expensive and basically rules out using it for any consumer/freemium apps.

For the apps that don’t need the realtime sync, I suspect that Google Firestore (and possibly MongoDB Stitch?) would be a better option. You don’t get the realtime sync, but if all you need is storing user documents and periodic sync for a consumer app (low bandwith, high number of users, potentially large data set that doesn’t change much), then I don’t see how this can be possible with Realm Platform.

I really hope this is where MongoDB Stich will come in…


#26

Perhaps I misunderstand the comment but the whole point of Firestore and the Firebase Realtime Database is live, realtime sync’ing so you definitely get that with Firebase products.

Firebase also provides a completely free development tier so you can spend time developing and not paying for it while you do.

My current .02

/beginRant

Has anyone tried MongoDB Stich? As is, what’s provided on Github flat out doesn’t work - it won’t compile at all and contains severely outdated API and examples. It’s built for Swift 3 so anyone that has XCode 10.2 can’t even try to compile it as it’s too old. I opened an issue two weeks ago and it’s not been touched (sound familiar)?

I think the bottom line here is the current Realm pricing model is undefined and confusing. There doesn’t appear to be anyone using Realm Cloud for production other than for in-house speciality solutions. The $30 tier is silly to charge a developer during development.

The path to MongoDB has not been laid out so it’s ‘uncomfortable’ developing with Realm at the moment as the rug could be pulled out from under us at any time ( anyone recall the Facebook/Parse deal?)

I would like to see the following changes

  1. Free developer tier
  2. A clealy defined pricing model. If you need to know how to do it right, look at Firebase Pricing as while you may or may not agree with their structure, at least you know what it is
  3. Clear path to MongoDB integration - at least give us the heads up on what kinds of changes we should be prepared for.
  4. Consistently updated Realm Documentation - especially around Full and Partially Sync’d realms
  5. More interaction with Realm both here and on StackOverflow
  6. MongoDB’s lack of attention to their OWN tutorials is very concerning. They should work.

/endRant

Note that we are continuing development with Realm as we feel it may be the right back-end product for our app solution but feel the above topics (and more) really need to be addressed sooner than later.


#27

Yes, you get realtime update with firestore, but it is a bit different. It is document based so you will get a notification when the whole document is updated. In Realm you can do a lot of transactions of very small objects and every change would be synced instantly. If you do structure your data in this way in firestore it would be very expensive as it is based on number of read/write operations, while Realm is not


#28

Ah. If you are concerned about that or want more granularity then the Realtime Database is for you. However, they’re rates are pretty generous; 50,000 reads per day for free and $.60 per Million reads after that.


#29

I don’t need the realtime updates, documents would probably be fine, but as I am already using Realm on both iOS and Android using Realm Mobile Platform would have been the ideal solution. I would just have to log in and then don’t have to worry about sync/backups.

I think this is getting a bit off topic, but I think we all agree that the current pricing is not very transparent and puts severe limits on what types of apps you can build using the platform


#30

Yeah - agreed. My driving point there though is the pricing model is pretty darn clear, and IMO fair. The pricing model scales with your user base and app.


#31

This thread is a bit scary and revealing to me. I went into a silo designing/MVPing my side project with full understanding that data/synch for the app will be Realm based starting with Realm Cloud. However it is quite scary that reading this thread could not find a link to a positive case study of Realm Cloud! Not a link to a Play Store/App Store of an app using Realm Cloud from an indie/small team. That is not encouraging.

Now that explains why Realm had to put themself up for acquisition. 350 paying customers out of 100,000 developers using Realm. That is not a great conversion rate and not looking promising. That is one more example against the Freemium business model. In a sense, an argument could be made that developers did not support Realm financially that is why some of these issues (Bugs, Incomplete Product Line, Lack of Support, Slow Response) ranted about in this thread exist.

I paid the $30 for a few months during development as my token of appreciation. I loved the product (initially before all these Platform noise), however with this uncertainty I will have no option than to go back to the old lady - SQLite via Room and cook up my own sync solution using Firebase Firestore.


#32

@Sipe A bit late answer, but yes, we need offline sync.

My (hopefully) last 2 cents to this thread. Continuing @valokafor thought:
Yes, 350 paying developers out of 100,000 is almost nothing.
I don’t mind to pay but a reasonable price.
I do not see much difference between $30 and $250 plan for me. The second one does not provide 8 times more services or resources. $250 plan still offers only 5x9 support.
Dedicated plans does not scale well and

The most reasonable pricing model would be ‘pay-as-you-go’ or pay for consumed resources.
Montly Active Device means that I should pay equally for the user who is actively consuming resources and the user who has just tried application once and uninstalled it.

By the way, I hope if we started to discuss Firebase it is not prohibited here to mention other products.
Does anybody give a try to Azure Mobile Apps? The pricing is complicated there but at least it should be reasonably scalable.

P.S. I have left a comment under MongoDB SEO post here https://www.mongodb.com/blog/post/mongodb-and-realm-make-it-easy-to-work-with-data-together though he didn’t noticed it :grinning:


#33

Answering myself: Azure Mobile Apps are mostly dead.


#34

I want to do a last comment to close this thread as well. I am on the Product side.

Your comments here have not gone unnoticed.
We agree that usage-based pricing does make more sense and are discussing how (and even more so when) to enable that.
This will be possible as we better integrate Realm with the capabilities that MongoDB provides (especially on the Atlas side). There is some work involved with that before this can be rolled out.

We believe that the resources available for the $30 account are pretty generous, thus you can run smaller scale applications on this tier. For purely development a lower tier would be beneficial. Something we are looking at as well (prior to rolling out usage based pricing).

We (and this includes MongoDB) are committed to make Sync a prime way for client/cloud communication. Much easier with the additional resources that MongoDB is putting into the project. Plus we now have additional resources to improve the Realm Client DB as well and address some of the outstanding issues faster. This should be good news for everyone.


#35

@robertherber
Thanks for your reply and explanation of the situation.
As far as I know from your Sales department you have stopped selling Dedicated plans at all until MongoDB decide on future licenses and prices.

  1. What are your recommendations for those who overgrow $30/month plan and need more reliability and resources to move to production?
  2. Are there any estimations regarding when the new pricing models will take effects or any decisions are taken? At least, approximately (1 month, 3 months, 6 months)?

#36

@wildfisher:
To 2:

  • The estimate is that the integrated Realm/Stitch MongoDB product will take us into Spring/Summer 2020.
  • With the integrated roll-out we will support usage-based pricing, since this is the default model for MongoDB Atlas. Anyone who (might have) used Atlas will be familiar with it.

To 1:

  • In the meantime if you outgrow the $30/month plan then please contact [email protected].
  • We have to work out a plan to support your case. If you reach that limit you might want a dedicated instance for your app anyway.

#37

I have contacted sales but they say they know nothing and stopped selling dedicated plans until receiving new instructions from MongoDB.

My last question to support concerning technical problems was unanswered for a month and now the support silently closed the ticket.

It’s all very sad.
It looks like ‘sometimes in the future everything will fine’ but for now there are no chances to take it seriously and rely on Realm for any public application.


#38

@wildfisher

Apologies for the unanswered technical issue in the support portal. As Nikola and Robert mentioned before, we make concerted attempts to support our community Sync users (Standard, $30/month plan) with a best effort, but must create a balance with supporting our enterprise deployments.

What is the ticket ID? I will look into this for you.


#39

How do enterprise deployments handle sync errors in a layered architecture? This question has had no response from Realm and so reinforces the concern we have about Realm Cloud being ready for production.

I really do like Realm and would be delighted if these concerns could be allayed.


#40

I’d like to reiterate a few things already mentioned in the thread because it feels like we’re going in circles.

If you have an app in production (even on the $30 plan), we’re going to do everything reasonably possible to make sure it’s working as intended. If that means moving you to a dedicated plan, we can do that. We’re trying not to sign up new customers that would need a dedicated plan until we’re further ahead with the integration with MongoDB’s infrastructure, but that doesn’t mean we’ll just abandon existing customers who may have apps in production.

There are enterprise/sophisticated apps in production running on Realm Cloud. The forums is a place for community support/discussions and we’re not forcing any of our customers to sign up or discuss their use cases with others. We have a best effort commitment to replying on questions, but the forum will always be lower priority than our support tickets. So if you have an urgent issue/bug report, file a ticket. If you have general questions around architecture and have a support contract covering code reviews, then file a ticket. If you have neither of those, we’ll try to reply in the forums as time permits, but you shouldn’t expect 8 hour response times or responses tailored precisely to your use case.


#41

That’s what happens with forums though … there are threads on Stackoverflow for example that run on for years, meandering all over the place and as long as everyone is respectful they can be jolly good fun.

But more seriously, this particular thread asks a question that remains pertinent. I really like Realm and I want it to succeed as we think it has great potential for the markets we develop for. But we are still doing due diligence on Realm.

We aren’t confident we can move to GA with a Realm product yet and we have a responsibility to our users, small businesses, who rely on our software to run their daily business, pay the rent and feed their families. We take seriously our responsibility to those who have put their trust in us over the years.

We have raised tickets in the past. One of our contractors raised a ticket as a non-paying user and was told that priority goes to paying users. Fair enough, but when we have raised tickets as paying users and the response is not as prompt as we had hoped, we are told we should upgrade our plan.

One example is where one of our customers had a corrupted realm on Realm Cloud. We raised a ticket the day he notified us, but Realm support took a week to roll back his database. That poor guy earned no money for a week!

With a response like that is it any wonder users raise issues publicly in this forum rather than raising a ticket privately?

Also Realm support disappeared for a week. How could something so important and so simple take so long to fix? That sort of thing rocks market confidence and we quietly wonder if Realm is going to be able to hang on, MongoDB takeover notwithstanding. Speaking as a paid up Friend of Realm, I hope so.


#42

Those are fair criticisms and admittedly, we have had to stretch our support resources thin to make sure our enterprise customers are covered, which meant that people on the $30 plan were suffering longer-than-what-we’d-like response times. That’s expected to improve as we integrate with the larger MongoDB support organization.

Similarly, things have been a bit hectic while merging the teams, so fixing the support portal kind of fell between the cracks. But again, after this initial transition period, we expect things to start working much smoother.

Finally, if you don’t feel the product or the support team are just there yet for your use case, that is your call and no one can argue with that. I believe we’ve come a long way in terms of stability over the past year and, I expect things will get even better with the MongoDB acquisition. That being said, if you have a project that’s running into deadlines and are worried Realm will slow you down or prevent you from shipping a polished product, then perhaps you should look for a different solution. I do hope that in 6-12 months, you’d be willing to give it another shot, though :slight_smile:


#43

Thanks for the candid response @nirinchev. It has looked like Realm staff have been missing out on sleep.

We don’t currently rely on Realm, but we will keep a Realm version of an app available in prerelease for our users and hopefully we’ll see things settle down. I hope to come back to this thread at some point in the future and post that we are successfully running Realm in production.